Indifference

Indifference by Damian Gadal

Indifference by Damian Gadal

“…The unmanifest Being [pure consciousness, Self] coming to direct experience establishes the reality of oneness of eternal existence: That is the pre-eminent path of gaining knowledge (of reality).

“There is no effort, no individual inception of the doer on the path to the experience of the unmanifest Being: Being can only be gained by making use of the thinking process without any reference to any existing thing, without meaning.

“With complete indifference (during meditation) to the thoughts relating to activities in the relative world, the direct experience of the Self is gained by one who turns away from all distractions.

“…Spontaneously moving in the direction of more and more [happiness] in the gap between impulses of Vedic sounds [mantra], there is the path to experience of the state of least excitation of consciousness for every human being born on this planet.

“…By means of the transformation of…the sound [to] greater abstraction and greater power, that impulse of Vedic sound becomes the cause of (the production of) soma…”

The sage Vasishtha, instructing Rama and the court.
Yoga Vasishtha Ch.5, v87-89, translated by Peter Freund, PhD

This is a reference to the approach I describe on Transcending. Other texts suggest you can transcend through any of the senses. However, because sound is the most subtle, it will take you deeper.

The science of mantra offers us sounds with known good effects that support purification and healing. Less suitable sounds can have secondary effects that are less desirable.

Then, using a sound with known good effects (Vedic sound or mantra) but without meaning, we avoid getting stuck in the mind on the way in.

The indifference mentioned is not indifference to life but indifference to the mind during the practice so we can settle beyond it. They also call this non-attachment or allowing. Indifference to life can arise from a resistance to what is. That is not allowing.

The increasing joy as we approach the bliss body and the peace of being draw us within when the senses are not busy with the outer world.

Soma is a subtle fluid refined by the body that speeds up refinement and improves our support.

Even the mantra is transcended as we step into pure Being or samadhi.
Davidya

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38 Responses to Indifference

  1. Pete says:

    One of the fellow satsang attendees today likened it to a salmon always knowing which way is upstream, and being effortlessly drawn in that direction, toward the source 🙂

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Pete
      I guess I’d associate that more with the quest for awakening. Salmon are drawn upstream but I’m not sure I’d call it effortless. On some streams they have to work very hard, not to mention run the gauntlet of predators like bald eagles. 🙂

  2. Ron Whitaker says:

    “ Being can only be gained by making use of the thinking process”
    .
    Simple quiet intention creates the opening for the experience of pure being.
    .
    “…Spontaneously moving in the direction of more and more [happiness] in the gap“
    .
    Simple resting as being fills the body with gentle vibrations of peace – swells to fullness. The minds distraction are inconsequential in comparison to the peace of pure being.
    .
    Is Soma experienced in the body as the pleasant gentle vibrations?
    .
    Can we step into pure being or samadhi while these so subtle mind thoughts float meaningless through. Pure being seems never not present as even in gross activity the subtle glance inside is seen still present.

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Ron
      What you describe presupposes there is enough presence there that the attention can be on it. For many, inner attention is just mind and minds idea of being.
      .
      Simple resting as being can help awaken it but it doesn’t cause much refinement.
      .
      Soma is a fine fluid, not a vibration. It’s also called Amrita, nectar. It’s usually first noticed as a sweet taste in the back of the throat after samadhi.
      .
      And yes, there are various values of samadhi described in texts like the Yoga Sutra. With impressions and without, with seeds and without. And finally, there is Self Realization when samadhi is essentially full time.
      .
      Then its more stepping out of the world than into being.
      .
      And yes, universal being is omnipresent and eternal. It’s an effect of global consciousness becoming aware of it’s own existence.

  3. George Robinson says:

    Thanks for clarifying the idea of indifference, as I think it’s a common trap — of course, I reference myself as one who has been snagged by it before, but I don’t think I’m the only one. You succinctly drew it out for us to see better.

  4. don salmon says:

    Very helpful clarification, thank you.

    Do you know anything about the practice of inner sound? I learned the practice from Roy Eugene Davis, and was surprised how similar it was to the later stages of mantra (Nama-Japa, actually) practice.

    I’m particularly interested in your view, since the practice appears to be effortless – the sound is “there”, and the experience is that it quite effortlessly draws in attention and thoughts quickly quiet down into silence.

    thanks.

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Don
      No, I’m not familiar. There are quite a few practices out there. Some are quite similar to what I describe. But sometimes small differences can make a big difference long term.
      .
      For example, does it culture actual samadhi? As you describe, drawing you down into silent awareness. Does it also culture Shakti, the refinement side? This is through the science of mantra. And does it give you the support of a lineage of masters? This through the traditional guru puja when learning the practice.
      .
      I’ve seen a few variations on this that would bring all of the above but they’re typically only available in specific places. Most traditional teachers focus on a small group of students.
      .
      That said, some do have different karma & dharma and may find best results with something else. I can only suggest what I’ve seen that brings the best long term results for the most people.

  5. Ron Krumpos says:

    Some people repeat the sacred syllable Om (Aum). I used One, which has a similar resonance and connotation.

    • Davidya says:

      Yes, but both those mantras (they are distinct with different quailities) are renunciate mantras that will incline possessions and relationships to fall away. They’re not suitable for householders (most of us).
      .
      “One” also has meaning and there tends to be an intention with words like that. This will have certain effects but i guess it depends on what you’re looking for in a practice.
      .
      When you take a word within and settle deeper, the power and effect of it expands. The ancient science of mantra is thousands of years old and time-tested. I favour that.

      • Ron Krumpos says:

        It is the holy One and All and All in the holy One. It is the underlying Reality, or divine ground, which some call al-Haqq, Brahman, Dharmakaya, Ein Sof, Godhead, or other words. It is One: transcendent to and immanent in all existence; the absolute nature of being itself.

        • Davidya says:

          Right, but you’re describing the meaning of a word. If you intend to meditate on that meaning, fine. But if samadhi is the goal, then you want to transcend meaning.
          .
          Mantra is about the qualities of the vibration of the sound. A suitable mantra is chosen for it’s effects, not it’s meaning.
          .
          As i mentioned, Om is a famous mantra but it’s unsuitable for most people’s daily practice.

  6. Bernie says:

    Hi Davidya, I didn’t know Peter Freund has a translation of this incredible book which was all about Brahman. What’s the title of his Yoga Vasistha version? The one I read 27 years ago was that of Swami Venkatesananda, first the abridged, and then eventually, the unabridged version.. it truly broke lots of boundaries to pieces.

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Bernie
      The book is called Yogic Flying. It’s a translation of only the part of the Yoga Vasishtha related to practice, enlightenment, the siddhis and group practice. This is discussed in the story of Cudala in Part 6. His translation is terminology-heavy but brings out a lot of detail lost in most translations.
      .
      I recommend the Venkatesananda translation as its the clearest I’ve seen. But that’s mainly an overview. The full text is in 4 or 5 volumes and is packed with detail, like all the kinds and colours of flowers along the road.
      .
      The challenge is some of the detail is significant but when the understanding of right approach is missing, it gets lost. The 7 stages model I use is also from this text but thats gone in most translations too.
      .
      For readers in general, the text is the central teaching from the Ramayana, the story of Rama’s life. (Much like the Bhagavad Gita is the central teaching from the Mahabharata, the story of Krishna’s life)
      .
      And yes, some of the stories are mind-blowing. Bhushunda the crow is a favorite. I’ve written a few articles on parts of the book.

  7. Bernie says:

    Thanks, Davidya. Yes, the Bushunda story is a favorite too. If I remember correctly, he lived for 71 kalpas (creations)? and is still around. And Vasistha too lived for many kalpas as well.. staggering! I feel very grateful that I resonate with the technologies for enlightenment that came from this ancient tradition of Vedic Masters (from which TM came from) which spans the current kalpa we are in, and the kalpas before this.. I can only say Jai Guru Dev! All glory to the great tradition of the ancient Vedic Masters!

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Bernie
      I think it was 10, and Vasishtha had come to see him in 7 of those. But simply living through a dissolution is pretty remarkable. I guess if you learn to reside in Chittamaya kosha, in pure flow, you could do it. The higher Devas do.
      .
      (71 is the chaturyugas in a manvatra or Manu. A Kalpa is 14 Manus. I tend to the mahayuga approach as its more even divisions. But theres variation in interpretation of the old texts and how long these ages are.)
      .
      Agreed, we’ve been blessed by this ancient tradition. I see this more deeply all the time. Jai Guru Dev!

  8. Davidya says:

    Apologies to anyone who tried to come to the site Sunday night. I renewed my security certificate last month but it didn’t change over properly. That triggered the browser warnings. My host fixed the issue soon after.

  9. Carolyn Knutson says:

    Hello, I have a question about mantra and sound. I used to work with repeating a mantra internally like om mani padme hum…now I work with that only if my mind is more disturbed. I am very attuned to nature, so I naturally am drawn to rest my attention on bird sound or the sound of a stream. I let that take me gently into more expansive awareness…it’s effortless.
    Is a mantra technically generated internally?
    Also I read that the mantras we generate have more power if they are silent rather than spoken, the more subtle the realm, the more effect. Do you find that?
    I’m taking a leap and relating this to journaling and talk therapy…bringing the inner out to the gross level disperses its charge and then clearer perception can enter, which brings the negative mantra to resolution and healing.
    Any thoughts you have on this is appreciated, as these are things I’m intuiting from my own direct experience 🙂

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Carolyn
      .
      I talked about ways mantra are used awhile back
      https://davidya.ca/2009/05/27/mantra-mantra/
      .
      Generally, it’s better to practice mantra regularly to help culture the physiology. While band-aid meditation works, it only takes care of the current issue. This limits benefits.
      .
      That said, I don’t recommend choosing a mantra because you like it or its famous. This doesn’t account for it’s effects on us. Sometimes such practices will fall away because they’re not suitable.
      .
      For householders, Shakti mantras are more suitable.
      .
      Resting on natural sounds is pleasant but more superficial.
      .
      The more subtle the level, the more powerful the mantra but it depends a little on what the purpose of it’s use is. (see article linked) And yes, if you speak out your inner mantra, it can be jarring. It should be retained for inner practice.
      .
      Bringing the inner out helps make it more conscious for healing. Meditation has a different intent. (healing takes place as an effect rather than being the practice)

      • Jim says:

        If I may:
        “All freedom to man, but freedom is useful when we know what life is, when we know what past is, what present is, when we know how to go about things, not that every man should be left to experiment by himself.”
        -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

      • Carolyn says:

        Thank you 🙂
        Does is make sense to do this: Repeat a Shakti/seed mantra like hrim krim internally until there is a natural opening to samadhi, rest there, then when the mind cycles back into activity settle into the mantra until there is a natural opening to samadhi again? Keep cycling like that?

        • Davidya says:

          Hi Carolyn
          Yes, it makes sense assuming you have good technique. The mind is so used to managing the process that it tends to get involved, corrupting the practice.
          .
          But again, I favour proper instruction for the reasons I lay out here:
          https://davidya.ca/2019/11/01/transcending-the-means/
          .
          This isn’t like choosing the chocolate you want. It’s more like going to the expert for right approach.
          .
          The practice I learned over 45 years ago still serves me.

          • Carolyn says:

            Perhaps I didn’t frame questions above in a way that you understood me. I reach states of samadhi easily and regularly. My practice and work is in the somatic arts/psychotherapy..asana, pranayama, and craniosacral therapy/other forms of bodywork and trauma healing. That is the way I understand that I have toned my physiology…somatically. I do not necessarily need mantra to access deeper states. I was wanting to learn more about mantra specifically and also how it may relate to healing in general…I was not trained in the TM world.

            I’ve been reading your blog consistently and listening to interviews that you do for the past year or so now. I think what you are doing and teaching is just brilliant. It has expanded my awareness in ways that fit the right spot at the right time, and I have greatly appreciated your insight and feedback.

            I am assuming you and others on this blog are also open to feedback, so I will say this. There is an intellectual ego here that I was surprised to encounter in the last two times I have interacted. Perhaps dropping into the heart along with a brilliant mind is just what the world needs right now, maybe?

            • Davidya says:

              Hi Carolyn
              Thanks for your thoughts. There was no intention to be harsh. But from my perspective, mantra should not be treated casually.
              .
              For me they are living and powerful. Not treating them appropriately can have unintended consequences. Ditto in writing about them here where the attention amplifies.
              .
              The value of mantra is in refining the physiology in the process of samadhi. Those with sufficient presence can certainly step into deeper states with simple attention. But that alone isn’t as balanced a development. Atman without sattva to use the language of the blog.
              .
              This isn’t TM teaching I’m saying. This is the experience here. TM is simply a very accessible way to learn properly.
              .
              You may find Frawley’s book Mantra Yoga valuable. He talks about the foundations of mantra and the mantra for various part of the body that can be used in healing. It’s mentioned in the Books section of the Recommended tab.

  10. I got inspired by this post and downloaded Swami Venkatesananda’s verison abridged of the Yoga Vasishtha
    A great read on Being, Onenes, Brahman as the only reality and its unfoldment – next step will be the unabridged and maybe Yogic Flying. Not to get distracted by the conceptual but there is vibration or quality of slience that seems to be enlivened by reading these ancient stories and teachings. Thanks Davidya for pointing out these works.

    • Davidya says:

      Agreed, Harrison. The text itself suggests reading it will bring enlightenment. However, it was written in a higher age.
      .
      In the current age, it’s not common for the royal court to invite enlightened sages to give discourse that is attended by divine beings. 🙂

  11. yes – just imagine the white house and it current occupant and compare that to the level of what used to occur in court as you describe – since leadership is a reflection of our collective consciousness maybe we need a few more 10K courses that MMY used to hold at fairfield this November… btw – the text does help me notice the thought stream of my mind and contrast that with being present with or in tune with stillness – noticing and returning to stillness in a way reflects the practice of meditation as it integates with activity

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Harrison
      The US is in a Rahu period which makes things unpredictable and karmic. This also has a strong influence on the collective. It really helps to have grounding in source so the surface waves don’t carry you with them.
      .
      It’s a time when such a course would be impossible to organize. The domes are currently closed, for example.
      .
      However, online sync is happening instead, where people are gathering virtually rather than physically. I’ve been surprised how potent that can be.
      .
      And it’s also a time when some people can slow down a bit and reflect and settle rather than binge-watching TV. 🙂

  12. a sobering thought about this Rahu period compared to 30 years ago – slowing down and connecting online these past few weeks has been supporting the next evolutionary step — i think MMY talked about how when natural law reaches a low point it spontaneously springs back into fullness or full expression – whether that takes an avatar to initiate i am not sure or a lot of people coming together in some way to re-create coherence

    • Davidya says:

      Agreed, Harrison. I attended an online retreat last weekend and was surprised how potent the presence was. With all the direct attention it was actually greater than in person, although the flavour was a bit different.
      .
      Multiple organizations are holding synced meditation events that have the potential to be much larger than everyone physically in one place.
      .
      And yes, this year is when dharma is expected to hit a low point. But its also a deflection point, part of a transitional stage out of one place into another.
      .
      Some are saying this time it’s the collective thats doing it. The number of people that have woken up in the last decade or so is remarkable. Some of those are now living stages Maharishi barely even touched on. A lot has changed for the better but theres some serious purification needed.

  13. that’s a remarkable statement Davidya about the numbers waking up – it would be great to hear their voices through some media or gathering – perhaps we can connect with that field of Being being generated by this collective through intention and tuning in – it does feel, to me, like its time to make that shift and be part of that unfolding

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Harrison
      Yes, I saw a big shift in late ’06 through ’08 when a lot of people woke up. They’re most obvious around some teachers where they gather. But I get notes and questions through the blog all the time.
      .
      The vast majority of people who wake up take their time integrating and embodying the change. They’re also not as analytical as I am, so they don’t develop much language about it. They just continue their lives same old, chop wood carry water. Some avoid talking about it because of all the strange ideas people have about it.
      .
      This is what motivated Rick Archer to start BATGAP. He saw people waking up but no one believed it. Yet you’ll notice most interviewees are teachers or similar, used to talking about it. He had to change his tag line though as it varies some what interviewees consider “awake.”
      .
      I’d suggest connecting with the field through meditation. In time, being becomes lively in awareness. Then awake people we resonate with enliven it in us. They don’t have to speak at all. 🙂
      .
      What you describe is already happening. There is a tendency for the awake to connect with others awake and some informal communities have developed.
      .
      Those in further stages with developed refined perception are working on subtle levels to support the collective.

  14. Interesting this happened in 06-08 during another low point in Rahu with the financial meltdown and the activities that led up to it – hopefully natural law/divine compassion will respond with another wave during this period of challenge – I’m finding plenty of opportunities (or they find me) to see more clearly where I am not awake and caught up in the small self of grasping or adversion. I do have a sense of Being and Stillness around the “me” but its not yet embodied as Being beholding Being in an abiding way. Will keep meditating and being present in the moment to stillness through out the day, along with inquiry and scriptures and of course your blog. — Look forward to hearing more about how those you mentioned are working on subtle level (individually or as a group) to support the collective in a book or your blog… Thanks again!

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Harrison
      Yes, the Rahu-Ketu axis is related to karma and loss but liberation is also a loss – in a good way. It’s a good time to be more introspective and can push letting go that we’ve been unwilling to.
      .
      As I’ve mentioned, here the life I’d had fell away to set the stage for the shift and so the life could support the changes. For others, the shift is less overt.
      .
      Just be careful about balance. The dives within and introspection need to be balanced with activity so they can integrate. Otherwise, we get ungrounded and the dye doesn’t become fast. In times like this, a regular walk in nature or similar can be beneficial. Not to mention some effortless yoga asana.

  15. thanks for the sage advice – much appreciated and followed

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