A Conversation with Andrew Hewson on the Stages of Enlightenment

A Conversation with Andrew Hewson on the Stages of Enlightenment

After our conversation with Dorothy Rowe earlier this month, Andrew Hewson suggested we have another conversation ourselves. We explored the stages of enlightenment and some variations in terminology around the topics. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did.

On YouTube

Other conversations weโ€™ve had since.

Last Updated on December 7, 2020 by Davidya

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  1. Terry hayes

    YOU don’t get ‘enlightened’. ‘It’ is already enlightened and doesn’t need your help, efforts or claims of awakening.
    Ego and thought are insentient of themselves.

    This is all a wild goose chase and you two are a kind of ‘Punch & Judy’ show. Quite amusing.

    1. Hi Terry

      Actually, we discussed that and agree with your first sentences. Did you actually watch the video? The point was emphasized even more in our first conversation with Dorothy.
      The main point of conversations like this and similar talks at the Science and Nonduality conference is to support people for whom these stages are unfolding.
      There has been a lot of oversimplification of the ancient understanding. This can be useful for the mind. But when the actual process unfolds, there is a great deal more variety and nuance in the process. Then, an understanding of the fundamental process and variety can be very supportive.
      For example, if there is the idea that there is only Self Realization, this can get in the way of the smooth further unfolding. We touched on that in the conversation too. And how to talk normally. (laughs)
      I would call it more an adventure than a goose chase. And none of the violence of Punch & Judy was required. ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. Tomek

    David, I really enjoyed that conversation, first thing in the morning:) I stopped reading your book after some of the nondual stages opened here, because I didn’t want to get influenced in any way, and also because for a moment ego assumed that “this is enough”:) And then I saw Andrew’s website and got upset!:) Because, he was doing it again:) Ha, ha, ha:) But I can see and appreciate now, that this is needed:) Thank you Both, indeed:)

    1. Thanks, Tomek.
      Yes, knowing there is more is good but having concepts about how it’s “supposed” to show up can get in the way.
      Yet, after the shifts it can become valuable to bring some context and language to the experience to help support and integrate it. Further, becoming aware of aspects you hadn’t noticed yet can help it expand too.

  3. Gina Westbrook

    That is wonderful to watch: the two of you interacting. The Self interacting with the Self. Even though I have not yet gone through all the shifts, it was like I was experiencing It while you were talking. You gave one the experience just by discussing It. Thank you, much love to you both.

      1. Uli

        May all spiritualities attain a deeper unfolding and re-memember an ever-wider context, including those ones that have been unbalanced by teachers pronouncing statements such as “The body itself is the disease” (Ramana Maharshi)

        1. Yes, that movement is happening. When I was young, most traditions were quite siloed and separate. Until this decade, talk of stages was heretical in many circles. Many are now talking about embodiment. Gradually there is a sharing and coming together.
          As for the quote, it’s all about context. But yeah, I would not call that a helpful remark now. Enlightenment is about living it in this life and in this body, not escaping it. ๐Ÿ™‚

  4. Reggie

    These videos are very helpful to understanding ones process, it also helps with letting go of an ideal Awakening experience and just letting nature do it’s thing. Setting the stage with regular transcendence and just not letting oneself get too involved with every detail. I’ve realized how in my head I’ve been about this stuff. I had a conversation with someone yesterday and it reminded me to just let go and be present with what’s happening versus projecting some future outcome. Thanks David the content is truly enlivening.

    1. Hi Reggie
      Yes. Those expectations of it unfolding a certain way or what it’s supposed to be can be a barrier to the actuality if we’re attached to the ideas.
      Exactly – awakening happens now. So if we can just surrender into the present moment the shift can happen.
      The trick is, mind can’t find it because it’s beyond the mind. It happens when mind gets out of the way, even just for a moment. A now moment. ๐Ÿ™‚
      Thanks for the feedback.

  5. Javi Gomez

    what does it mean to say ‘apparent’?

    apparant growing of the beard, apparant suffering, apparant past, apparant keyboard…..

    I heard this 10 years now, but its not my experience that its apparant as I don’t know what it means non duality speaking. I spoke to andrew online twice. He is good.

    1. Hi Javi
      This is often used as a concept or a reference to illusion but what is meant here is the direct experience. For most people, the world is solid and real. Some go through a stage when the world seems illusory, like a mirage. And then as we refine further, and the world is seen as Lila, the divine play. (these are stages of refinement and the dominant guna)

      With the Brahman shift, the world is experienced as uncreated. From that perspective the world is an appearance of Brahman. It’s not real in and of itself but is real and experienced because it is Brahman.

      Deeper still, it’s seen as an expression of Divinity. “appearance” sums it up.

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