The Utah Talks – 1

Salt Lake City
Salt Lake City by Matt Kieffer

Traveling into Utah was a distinctive experience. The altitude is over 4,000 feet and the air dry. The plain by a salt lake is surrounded by large mountains. Salt Lake City has no apparent apartment towers and is spread wide. This is Mormon country. The entire county has streets and addresses laid out on a grid starting from the main temple. The group consciousness has a curious constraint and unsettledness.

The talks took place in a private residence, about 2 dozen chairs spread through the living and dining rooms. Attendees were a very diverse group – in age, stage, background, and length of practice. Several came long distance.

The talks were surrounded by extensive personal and group discussions – in fact it was almost non-stop.

Each talk was about 2 hours. This is a less structured talk than you’d hear at a venue like SAND. I’m more in the flow of the group and there is more discussion although I do most of the talking. Michael chimed in frequently. You’ll also hear the voice of an evolved woman from CA offering further points a few times. The rest is participants questions and comments.

The first few minutes of the first talk are missing due to a software glitch. I’ve replaced that with roughly how I started. The audio also cuts out a few times in the first few minutes but by about 9 minutes in, that mostly clears up.

Links to Topics:

Alertness, Liveliness and Intelligence

Consciousness aware of itself, illustrated

The stages of enlightenment

Atman And Sattva

Unity into Brahman


Subtle Beings

Natures Support

The Koshas or Energy Bodies

The Chakras

The Experience of God

Pure Divinity

Stages of ParaBrahman (3rd part)


Devas waking up

Cycles of Time (Yugas)

Shadbhava, 6 houses

Chasing Experiences

Awakening is not Experienced

Stages of Bliss

Laniakea, our Supercluster

The Elements


The Hard Problem of Consciousness

Bernardo Kastrup

Yoga Sutra opening

Because of inconsistencies with how podcast services handle multiple links, I’ll post the second part on another post.

Talk 2 >

Last Updated on January 12, 2020 by Davidya

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  1. Hi David,

    I enjoyed the talk thank you for posting it.


    By what means does Brahman know itself?


    Pure Divinity/ParaBrahman – I would like to hear more about this (yes, almost impossible but there must be some way to do so.)


    There is suddenly (at any point in the day) an awareness of the interaction/interplay between thought and the body but also a kind of seeing of consciousness (as though consciousness is being observed) itself involved in the process…is this imagined, I mean, what is it that knows consciousness? Almost as though there is a cradle wherein all this is held.


    You imply not putting the attention on the side-effects (of kundalini) instead, a focus on the underlying process itself and support that. What is the process you are referring to?


    With what does the physiology have to catch up. Do you mean – catch up with the awakening?


    I know what you mean about challenges arising needing to be resolved but doing so in an easier manner – not so much fuss and drama and none of it being taken so seriously and there is a seeing/knowing of that as it happens and it comes with it a relaxed attitude.


    Lately, there has been an awareness of things appearing as though going wrong and it’s seen that actually, they’re just fine simply not happening the way imagined or liked/preferred to go.


    I like what you said about the ego using memories of spiritual experiences in order to pretend to be the self simply to get into conflict with itself and creating noise to distract. There is more and more a seeing of that process in action…alongside that an acknowledgement of it as it happens and letting it be.

  2. Hi Lewis
    Brahman knows Brahman. just as consciousness knows consciousness. I discussed the point here:
    There are a couple of links to ParaBrahman and pure Divinity at the bottom left of the article above. More can be found under the topic on key Posts and via Search.
    Remember that when I was speaking, what wanted to be said arose. As I mentioned, I brought up things I didn’t expect to. But when it came to ParaBrahman, words did not come. It would seem what wanted to hear was mind and there were no words to address that. At other times, words do arise.
    Right a cradle. Consciousness knows consciousness.
    I recommend a practice of effortless meditation that results in transcending and samadhi. This connects us to source and helps purify the physiology. When channels become more clear, the energy flows. Kundalini can uncoil and rise (if it hasn’t already) naturally. Attempts to control or push the process are less effective and can lead to a much rougher process. They also don’t culture letting go.
    Yes. Awakening is instant. Then each of the layers of our physiology have to catch up to that. The physical body is the most dense so takes the longest to adjust/ to embody.
    On going wrong, right. (laughs) Just finishing a related article for later today. “Wrong” is often just a mind evaluation when it turns out it was a good thing in the bigger perspective. Like the marriage breaking up that opens the door to awakening.
    Good – it’s a learning process. The more conscious we become, the more we become conscious of, and can wind it down or let it go.

    1. David, thank you.


      Like a river flows through a valley can it be said that consciousness flows through Brahman and Brahman is conscious of the river and at some stage conscious of itself and beyond that is the ParaBrahman. And, Consciousness and Brahman in a sense are ‘things’ whereas, ParaBrahman is beyond things.


      It’s so difficult to put into words. Objects appear in space and space itself is an object appearing/has its presence in something so refined it borders on not being a thing at all (Brahman), after which would be the ParaBrahman (beyond things.)


      I know you have said not to try and work it all out via the mind/thought but it’s as though the mind want’s some sort of picture in order to let it go— the attachment to ideas.

      As though something is trying to burst through.

      1. Also, as there is a ‘progression’ through the ‘layers’ it’s somehow known that from top to bottom (ParaBrahman to the physical world) there is only the one nature-all.
        Looking forward to listening to Utah 2. (What a strange sounding sentence.)

      2. Hi Lewis
        I would not frame it that way. Consciousness flows through itself. The dynamics of consciousness can be said to be within Brahman but Brahman is quite distinct from it.
        Consciousness itself is the source of things so in it’s essential nature is beyond things. Things begin at the causal level, a couple of stages more expressed than consciousness.
        I wouldn’t try to figure out Brahman and ParaBrahman with the mind. The point of mentioning them is just to know they’re there for when you get there. Prior to that it’s all about consciousness.
        And yes, the mind wants “the answer” – it’s the hazard of even mentioning it. You may have noticed part of the recorded discussion was on this topic. Michael’s answer was “we’re not going to tell you.” I mentioned bleeping the participants response. (which i did) 🙂
        I would just tell the mind there are layers beyond consciousness which will unfold one day. But there are no concepts that will encompass them. The priority now is understanding what is here.

        1. David, thank you.


          I’ll leave all that other stuff alone.


          Funny how while attention is on thoughts about this or that everything seems muddled but when the quiet sets in— it’s enough. Trying to work it all out brings tension which seems to act like a door slammed shut.


          I’ll stay with this— “The priority now is understanding what is here.”


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