This month, Andrew and I did a live conversation with an online audience. We reviewed the stages and discussed the role of Healing in Divine Unfoldment. A Q&A followed.
My recording was faulty, but Andrew had a backup that addressed most issues. My audio is out of sync. If you find that distracting, close the eyes or listen to the podcast version.
Prior conversations with Andrew
Podcast: Download (Duration: 1:59:03 — 110.1MB)
Namaste. These unfoldings happen. can Guru facilitate it? In retreats of Gangaji and others, what participants get? do they get self realization with some technique? I am curious about these.
Working on my translation and commentary on the Yoga Sutra. The text emphasizes the importance of a practice that cultures samadhi and purification. That prepares the ground so we can support an awakening when an opening comes.
Awakening itself is not a doing so there is no technique for the actual shift. It’s a letting go or surrender. It’s Self that wakes up to itself through the apparent person. We wake up From the person. So you don’t wake up. Self wakes up.
When, through practice we become “ripe”, then a catalyst becomes valuable as we have no reference for waking. Then someone awake can help. The awakeness in us sees the awakeness in the guru and that can trigger a shift. Their presence also makes our awakeness “louder”. So shifts often happen on or after retreats or satsangs. I’ve seen many, many shifts this way. But only a few teachers wake up more than a small number of people.
Not everyone wakes this way. It may depend on where they’re comfortable letting go, when their “last stress” pops, or whatever it takes for the seeing to happen.
Takuin woke up to a car honk. Someone woke reading this blog. People have woken reading Lorn’s book. Someone woke reading my first book. Someone else woke up getting off a bus. Everyone’s process is a bit different and you can’t predict it.
Different teachers use different approaches. When I saw her, Gangaji was mostly about sitting together in the presence, and she talked to a few people to help them see through their contractions. Didn’t see any waking there but did find it very blissful and it triggered some refined perception. I know a teacher who has people lie on the floor and feel into their body. Another works on peoples emotional constrictions. Depends on who you resonate with and what works for you. I shifted listening to a teacher on a conference call. Couldn’t hear him half the time but it didn’t matter. The words were not what was important. 🙂
In this context is there something beyond consciousness or prior to condciousness. I’ve heard this mentioned by Nisargadatta … Is this beyond just manifest consciousness? Is it pure being but unaware being or is there an awareness that is beyond the beyond? In short…what is meant by prior to consciousness based on your awareness and system of explanation. Also there have been many famous gurus who for lack of a better term seem to be outstanding …. such as Guru Dev, Anandamayi Ma, Bhagsvan Nityananda, Ramakrishna, Buddha, Christ etc. A who’s experiences and awareness seems to be even beyond the beyond the beyond….can you comment on what levels of awareness etc….even higher than what you normally speak of may be out there?
Yes. For someone in Self Realization or Unity stages, consciousness is infinite and eternal. It is the source of mySelf and all experiences. It seems madness to suggest there is something beyond that. But in the Brahman shift, we transcend the self-interacting dynamics of consciousness and the prior enlightenment into a no-thing beyond consciousness and being. And yet it is inclusive of them. It makes little sense to the mind but we can live it because we are it. In that case, it is Brahman that knows itself, not consciousness. And there is 2 more stages past that.
Have written a number of articles on related topics to give some context. It’s not possible to summarize in a comment. Here’s a couple:
There is a lot of variety in expression. For example the stage they’re speaking from, the degree of purification, the degree of embodiment (this takes years), the need of the time, and so forth. Guru Dev, for example, is profoundly pure and embodied but was renunciate with few students. Anandamayi Ma is one of the embodiments of mother. And so on.
The Kala system describes 16 levels of evolutionary development. Humans are in the 4-7 or 8 on the scale. So there is certainly levels of development beyond what I describe. But from what I understand they’re not possible in a human form. For example how can you be omnipresent like an archangel in a physical form?
Thanks. your explaination is crystal clear. You speak from your experiences, observation, your inner growth. This helps seekers to know what to expect or not to expect from a teacher. I wish you could offer retreat. You are content with blogs! As you say it is svadharma. I appreciate it.
It’s not about what I’m content with, it’s what I’m called to. For example, the above conversations have simply arisen and have been supported. There was no plan.
In my world, Lorn & Lucia have retreats that many have woken on. Lorn has a facility for catalyzing shifts. He’s the better source for that. 🙂