SAND and BATGAP Interview 2

SAND and BATGAP Interview 2

SAND18In the spring, I mentioned I’ll be speaking at SAND18 later this month. They’ve only given me a 20 minute slot this year, so I need to narrow the scope of the talk, The Faces of Reality. The current plan is to talk about the koshas or layers of creation, referring briefly to the stages model I talked about last year. I’ve referred to development of the subject aspect of consciousness. This year I’m talking about development of the object aspect, the world.

BATGAPRick Archer and I will do a second Buddha at the Gas Pump conversation after I fly in to San Jose. I plan to summarize the stages, then pick up where development left off in the first interview in 2015. That will mainly be on ParaBrahman and pure Divinity I think. Then we’ll talk a little about the book.

This is an in-person interview so you won’t be able to submit questions during. But if you’d like to send a relevant question in advance, you can do so on the form at the bottom of this page.

I’m expecting both events will end up on-line by the middle of November.

Meanwhile, I have about a dozen articles in the pipe. Apologies for the lag but it’s been eventful recently.

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  1. Joseph Weaver

    Very excited! Since you will be touching on Parabrahman, perhaps you could share some guesses on why some people hit this state and others do not? Like you’ve mentioned you know a number of people in this state, do they share anything in common?

    And on a somewhat related note, what are your thoughts on people that have decades of effortless meditation under their belt, but do not even hit the first stage, much less Parabrahman (which I assume is the case for the great majority of longtime TM teachers, for example)?

    Looking forward to these interviews!

    1. Hi Joseph

      I know a few in ParaBrahman but not enough to know how it typically unfolds. Its not real common yet.

      There are quite a few dynamics that influence outcomes.
      – prior lifetimes with a decent spiritual practice
      – karma we’re tackling this life
      – practices in this life that develop both consciousness and sattva
      – awareness there is more
      – good understanding (poor concepts can create barriers to opening)
      – need of the time

      Also, there are a lot of people who have ripened spiritually (like the TM teachers you mention) but because they have no historical reference for waking, they don’t know how. Such people need to spend time around the awake. The resonance can help make the shift when the time is right. I’ve seen this many times on retreats, for example.

      The ones I know who have stepped through the stages have a long history of practice, most witnessed for many years before waking (helping increase clarity), spend time with others very awake, and had a good understanding to support their process.

      The speed varies really widely though. I know people who took years just to be clear they were awake. And others that have flown past. Each of us has our own process and rate and we won’t know what that is until we can look back on it. πŸ™‚


    2. As a further note, the sage Vasishtha mentions in the Rig Veda the importance of desiring Unity. It would seem there needs to be some intention to move forward and not hold on to the initial enlightenment.

      I would further add that you need to know it’s there to desire it, part of what motivates my work.

      Another factor influencing moving forward is that the prior stage must be surrendered for the new stage to open. For some, this is natural but others are more reticent to let it go. This can be even more so for some teachers who’ve invested their work in what has been here.

      The Brahman shift can be the biggest step. The old texts suggest some people choose not to make that step as they want to retain that close intimacy of Unity. (again the role of desire) The challenge is of course in the shift itself, not what flowers out of it. Most of us are not wired to like change. πŸ™‚

  2. Jim

    Thank you, David! Very interesting this word ParaBrahman, as it appears to be a convenient way to describe activity and perception while living Brahman. In other words it is not distinct from Brahman, yet allows the dimensions of such a life, the flow to be described.

    Also interesting that such practical value can be found in Brahman, to a far greater degree than previous milestones of the development of consciousness, TC/CC/GC/UC, so that instead of Brahman joining the ranks of another step, it incorporates all of consciousness and beyond. Totality.

    So there are just two states of consciousness, within and beyond. Partiality, and Totality. Very simple, and vastly obvious. Thanks again for a compelling read!

    1. Hi Jim
      In some ways, this is true. However, in the context here, I use the term for another stage further where Para refers to Greater Than or Beyond. In that sense, it is distinct.

      I also use the term pure Divinity for it. Where forms of and formless Divinity may arise prior, it’s not until PB that you get just Divinity. No Brahman, consciousness, or any of that stuff.

      This is equivalent to pure consciousness. First we experience all sorts of forms and phenomena, then the flows of consciousness but pure consciousness itself is not known clearly until we know ourselves to be it.

      The way I put it, there is simply consciousness, then many perspectives that arise due to our relationship with it. Eventually, that includes beyond consciousness in Brahman.

      Thats the perspective here at least. πŸ™‚

      1. Jim

        OK, though if both Brahman and ParaBrahman are beyond consciousness, what is the distinction between them? Perhaps two sides of the same coin, with Brahman facing consciousness, and ParaBrahman facing Divinity and Mother? I haven’t heard Maharishi talk of ParaBrahman, though a life of Brahman certainly incorporates the Divine perspective. Thanks

        1. Brahman is know by Brahman, Divinity is known by Divinity. In many ways, they’re like night and day. Brahman is silent Totality. Divinity is fullness to the extreme. It is lit up like a million suns, profoundly networked and knowing, etc. In some ways, Brahman is the afterglow.

          Where consciousness is the source and Brahman holds the origins, Parabrahman is the source of the source.

          I also refer to Refined Brahman as the Brahman stage here the refinement process has integrated – Brahman with the Divine.

          No, it’s not about facing as that implies consciousness. As mentioned, both are known by themselves. ParaBrahman is Mother.

          Lorne refers to Mother Divine as mother expressed and Divine Mother as pure Divinity, unexpressed, uncreated.

          Yes, Maharishi didn’t use these terms but he tended to bring out stages based on peoples experiences. It seems it’s only in the last few years it’s started to show up here again although I’m sure there are outliers.

        1. That’s simple. In the 1970’s, researchers discovered that when 1% of a population had learned TM in a community, various quality of life factors in the community as a whole improved. Accident rate, hospital admissions, crime rate, and so forth dropped significantly for example. They called this the “1% effect.”

          A decade later, they discovered that when the square root of 1% of a population did the advanced TM programs together, it had the same effect. They called this the Superradiance Effect, then later the Maharishi effect. The larger the population, the proportionally fewer needed. For example, during the winter of ’83, about 8,000 gathered in the US midwest in domes in Iowa to do this for 10 days. This was higher than the superradiance number for the then worlds population. They also did this in several war zones. The wars ended while they were there but restarted after they left. After repeating this over 30 times, they gathered a group in Washington DC and announced predicted results in advance. The Police chief said it would take a snow storm in July to effect crime like that. They exceeded projections. Yet all participants had to do was gather together twice a day and enjoy their practice.

          The challenge was funding groups to sustain it. As they said, it would take a fraction of the cost of the military. There was a group in the states that began in ’06 but it’s gradually been dissipating. Most people do not understand how enlivening conscious could have an effect on the surface of life.

          The research was peer-reviewed and published in scientific journals. But as one journal editor put it, if this could be proved by science, there was something wrong with science. It’s too far outside the paradigms.

          I can add another effect to the list, what someone called the Enlightenment effect. When people who are well awake sit together, it has a very powerful effect and needs far fewer people. The largest I’ve been in so far is about 8 in Unity+. The presence is palpable.

          And of course there is the rising golden age that will come with enough people simple waking up wherever they are.

          The trick with any of these is the transition. Once you get over the threshold, it’s smooth. But that last step can be disruptive. It’s best to move through that quickly.

          In Physics, this is called a phase transition. We can use the example of boiling water, changing from liquid to gas. Just before a pot of water comes to a boil it roils – it gets very agitated. Then it settles into a much smoother boil.

          As we approach the age transition, we want to be working with the above effects to smooth the process as much as possible. πŸ™‚

    1. Hi Michael
      There was a few things like visitors but the main thing was a friend helped surface a very old contraction that had been neatly hidden. It had threads back into prior lives and ancestors. While that was stirred up, I didn’t want to share. πŸ™‚

  3. The BAT interview is “in the can” and Rick mentioned it during his talk today. We meandered some and parts are very abstract but we covered some very new ground.

    My talk is tomorrow morning. And there is still conversations about another talk. Off to see Bob Thurman now.

      1. Hi Joseph
        Thanks. Yes, there are some excellent speakers. Some I’ve mentioned prior. Annoyingly, they’re often at the same time. Like Jac O”Keefes talk is at the same time as mine. Her panel talk on a new spiritual teachers ethics org will be on SAND and BATGAP though. They also recorded an intro last night after a yummy E. Indian meal I was also invited to.

        There are over 100 speakers so it’s hard to even know who to see. I missed one that Rick said was the best of the conference. That talk wasn’t recorded. Rick plans to interview them later.

        I’ll do a post with a few pictures and stories a little later.

  4. The talk is done and the recording decent. It will need a bit of editing, like showing the slides I’m talking about.

    Still talk of a stages conversation tomorrow but its not scheduled yet. Have some photos and stories to share too, like the 3 Davids. πŸ™‚

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