The Value of Darshan

Recently, Rose Rosetree had a 2-part conversation with Jeffrey Chappell on enlightenment. Part of the debate was that they use the term slightly differently. Jeffrey relates more to the awakening of Self Realization. Rose, to enlightenment as being clear of energetic debris, balanced chakras, and the divine shining through – broadly a more established version of it.

In the second part of the conversation, Jeffrey brought up the value of entrainment, what is typically known as darshan. I sometimes call it resonance here. After that article, Rose posted another discounting the value of darshan in her experience.

Again, part of the issue is she’s focusing on enlightenment as a healed and established form of awakening, not the shift itself where darshan can be key. Energy healing is much more important for the refined values she looks for. But she does make some valid points. Chasing teachers to get their vibes is just a spiritualized version of celebrity chasing. It also tends to focus on the person and personality of the teacher rather than where the darshan is coming from. There is no real openness taking place. Rather, it’s another form of grasping.

For example, many people will go to a satsang or spiritual talk to hear something to entertain or satisfy the mind. When Lorne Hoff does similar, he suggests the listener put aside the mind and instead listen from silence, let the Self listen to the Self speaking. If the Self speaks but only the mind listens, the mind may grow but not the presence.

If we can listen from silence/ presence, its much more likely to enliven that. That is the real value of sitting with someone awake we resonate with.

But more deeply, depending on our own process, that darshan can be key to the awakening itself. The Self within wakes up to itself through this apparent form because it recognizes that lively Self in another we resonate with. This is why Jeffrey used the term entrainment.

This would not be true for everyone. I’ve noticed 5 typical styles of shift. But for some who are ripe, presence of another may be all it takes. Another may wake up to a certain word spoken in that open place. Another may be enlivened by the presence, then shift later on their own when it “lands”. And there are other dynamics I’ve touched on elsewhere.

It doesn’t matter if a person is devotional or not, there is a moment of letting go or surrender. The degree or depth of that and the clarity at the time determines how deep the initial shift is. For some, it is very clear and complete. For others, very subtle and unfolds more slowly. For others, somewhere in the middle.

In spite of this, we should again not see the person as the means. This puts awakening as being controlled by something outside of ourselves. But it is only ever ourselves that wake up to ourselves. Presence is just the catalyst.

I don’t recall anyone who woke with darshan alone. If it’s a major focus of the practice, it means spending some years in retreat with the teacher. How many teachers are available for that, that also have the prominent presence to do the job? Again, it can be the catalyst for someone ripe but they need to ripen first.

And of course, there is the old saying that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. We may feel more than ready. But this is not a process the me is controlling. It is a process that happens by grace, organized with a perfection that is beyond comprehension.
Davidya

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25 Responses to The Value of Darshan

  1. Davidya says:

    If this subject is of interest, I commented extensively on the linked articles on Rose’s site and there was some back and forth.
    I recently posted…The Ordinary AwakeningMy Profile

  2. To other fans of Davidya from this fan of Davidya:

    His calling it “I commented extensively” just hints at the generous, nuanced, and insightful comments he has contributed at this thread on “Deeper Perception Made Practical.” (And plenty of other threads, too. Just google him there!)

    I too have a follow-up article in process, continuing to discuss the ever-fascinating topic of Divine ever-presence and how one might relate to it, whether darshan is a factor or not.

    Meanwhile, I hugely appreciate the fine distinctions made in this latest post by Davidya. My friend, you are truly a teacher’s teacher.

  3. Davidya says:

    Thank you, Rose. The topic itself drew out nuances I’d not considered.

    High compliments for someone who teaches teachers herself. Thanks again.
    I recently posted…The Layers of HealingMy Profile

  4. Share says:

    Having been a chaser of teachers and healers, I can attest to the fact that the quality of this behavior can be improved with adherence to an intention for the highest good. And I could not have predicted when that change took place. But then it became clear that this is a huge part of my calling. Some of us are meant to “scout” out the terrain and report back to the tribe (-:

  5. Davidya says:

    Hi Share
    Agreed. There is a distinct difference between casual browsing for amusement and focused researching.

    We could use a shopping analogy. Are you causally browsing shops and wandering the aisles? Or do you have a shopping list and a plan?

    Or from another perspective, are you a spectator or participant in your life?
    I recently posted…The Value of DarshanMy Profile

  6. Or, for another perspective on the shopping analogy, is it really appropriate to compare spiritual evolution with shopping?

    My opinion: No. Because higher states of consciousness involve culturing the mind-body-spirit system. Not shopping at the best Darshan Shoppe.

    This is why I am happy to concede that darshan can help people. However, I’m skeptical on emphasizing this as a PATH.

  7. Davidya says:

    Rose – right. Evolution isn’t a shopping process.

    The shopping analogy was more in reference to our spiritual practice. Are we taste testing or committing to the best tools we’ve researched? Are we treating teachers as celebrities or guides?

  8. Share says:

    I’m not sure that all the old rules hold true these days. Perhaps it’s fine for some to be taste testing or shopping casually or whatever one wants to call it. Why not? In an infinite universe is there not room for an infinite variety of paths? Though we may have found a path that works for us, can we say with validity more than that this is the path that has and is working for me? I find the variety very beautiful and rich and also divine…

  9. Davidya says:

    (laughs) No, there is nothing wrong with taste testing. But theres a big difference between that and engaging a path. A teacher would not typically accept a student unless they’re committed.

    It very well may be that someones dharma involves researching other faiths or traditions or healing modalities. I do this myself. It may support the journey in various ways but is not the journey itself. It is not my path because it is not a means.

    Perhaps it would be useful to differentiate the difference here between the action and the intention of it. Are we sticking our foot in the water out of curiosity or to prepare to dive in? Are we swimming or treading water? Is rajas calling the shots, or tamas?

  10. Davidya says:

    Perhaps it would be useful to illustrate one perspective of time.
    There is a high perspective of time as being a large lotus flower. The paths of our journey are golden veins down the petals. Our attention moves down the line and unfolds experiences and expands awareness. We experience this as time.

    That golden line has what might be called ditches to the sides. The attention can stray off the line and go into the ditch a bit, slowing us down and reducing the quality of experience. Or we can adjust the attention and get back on the smooth line.

    Our path is what keeps us on the line. Distractions are what cause us to wander off the line. Does an activity serve our journey, or does it feed our resistance to change? Or does it serve an addiction to illusion and distraction?

  11. Share says:

    It’s my experience that the quality of any action can change in a nanosecond, even midstream so to speak. What began under tamas or rajas, can shift to sattwa with the help of an intention for the highest good.

    Ultimately all actions are under the direction of Being. The gunas are a veil merely.

    Thank you for insights. More later (-:

  12. Davidya says:

    Agreed – but the clarity must be there for that choice.
    Krishna explains in the Bhagavad Gita (Ch 2 on karma) that at first we realize after the fact. Then we come to be aware during. And finally, when the first impulse to act arises.

    And of course eventually, we resolve the less useful impulses altogether.

    The quote at the bottom of this blog is exactly a reference to that. Gold is the colour of sattva guna.
    I recently posted…The Value of DarshanMy Profile

  13. Share says:

    Thank you so much for this discussion. It’s wonderful to go into the fine points of this kind of vital knowledge.

  14. I just discovered your website. Wonderful. And “Observertions on the road home” – I love that.

  15. Davidya says:

    Hi Göran
    Thanks. And I just discovered yours earlier @ Lori’s site. Have your site open but have not had a chance to read it yet.

    Just noticed a curious thing – if you reverse the vowels of your last name you get my last name. (laughs)

  16. Pingback: Deeper Perception Made Practical » Avoiding Energetic Ponzi Schemes and other astral involvement, a guest post by Zelda

  17. Today’s post at my blog may be of interest in the context of protecting yourself as a shopper for darshan.

    http://www.rose-rosetree.com/blog/2014/07/29/cord-of-attachment-energetic-ponzi-scheme-astral-involvement-marijuana/

  18. Davidya says:

    Thanks, Rose. You raise another very important point I’d not considered here.

    Many newbies to spirituality are likely to confuse “darshan” (spiritual presence) with charm and charisma (energetic presence). The second relates to my mention of chasing celebrity, but there is a deeper danger than chasing illusion.

    As the light grows, what is unresolved is being pushed to the surface. One way that is now being expressed is what Rose describes as “extreme spiritual addiction” where our energetic connection to a teacher is being abused energetically. This was first apparent in a few channelers (people who are open to astral beings) but has begun to show up in non-channelers.

    Rose makes the important point of culturing energetic literacy so we can discriminate darshan from charisma. And know from whence the presence comes.

    Someone with a strong spiritual presence may also develop a strong energetic presence. The real question is – what are the qualities of that presence?
    I recently posted…The Layers of HealingMy Profile

  19. Jesper says:

    Hi David

    I was wondering whether you think there can be different benefits of Darshan from someone in UC and BC? Or is Darshan from someone in BC better than someone in UC (or someone who just isn’t as far along in BC as someone else is)?

    When I watch earlier videos with Lornes for instance, I feel significantly more in my heart area than I do with the most recent ones. With the more recents one it is just peaceful bliss coming up and with the older videos I feel more lively bliss but also anger coming up.

    Thanks!

    • Davidya says:

      Hi Jesper
      It’s not so simple. There is the quality of resonance. We’ll tend to resonate with some people awake but not others. As someone goes through higher stages, they tend to resonate with more people. But not everyone “gets” Lorne, for example.

      Simply being around others awake can be enough to enliven that in ourselves.

      Another factor is clarity or purity. How clearly does that awakeness express through the form?

      And Embodiment. How thoroughly is that lived? Someone who has moved through the stages quickly or very recently may not yet be as reliable a presence. It takes time to mature into each shift.

      Another is skill. Some simply don’t have the laws of nature to make them effective lighthouses. That’s not their dharma. In fact, it’s not most peoples. And how much practice have they had? Experience helps polish.

      See the point?

      Of course you don’t have to work all this out in the mind. Just go with those you feel resonance with, that increase the awakeness.

      As for the variations in Lorne videos over time, he is certainly growing but the heart he speaks from now may not resonate with you yet. His depth is quite profound.

      I’d also be careful not to confuse your response or what the videos might trigger in you with what he is broadcasting. Anger is not a quality I’ve seen in Lorne. (not saying he’s perfect but not that) 🙂

      • Jesper says:

        Hi David

        Thanks.

        So if I understand you correctly some people might for instance be in BC but has less purity and clarity and thus may have a smaller effect on those around them compared to someone in UC who has more purity and clarity?

        And then you say that some people might find it easier to resonate with someone in UC compared to someone in BC, because the person in UC is closer to his or her own level of consciousness?

        I personally find that more recent videoes of Lorne have a more subtle quality and it may take 5 min. to tune into it before some bliss arise. Just like you say.

        About your last comment and what I said here “With the more recents one it is just peaceful bliss coming up and with the older videos I feel more lively bliss but also anger coming up.”. Here I was talking about myself. I feel anger coming up in me when I watch a video with him from 2012, but I don’t experience that with his newest videoes. Then I was wondering if his “transmission” from 2012 has a greater effect on me for some reason? Or if there may be some other reason I haven’t thought of that you may know that causes anger to arise in me one and not the other?

        • Jesper says:

          A side note to the last point. One of the reasons why I like to listen to Lorne and Lucia is because I experience them as enlightened but not emotional wrecks. Being an empath, that is quite important to me.

          • Davidya says:

            (laughs)
            Yes, some people do go through a lot of emotional upheaval after major openings. Basically what has been repressed comes to the surface for processing.

            If they’re willing to deal with it, people who have been awake for awhile will be more smooth that way.

        • Davidya says:

          Hi Jesper
          Yes, but someone in BC may also have a stronger effect but it can less “clean” than another person in a prior stage. There is huge variations.

          Resonance is more about laws of nature than stage of development. For example, if we’re more devotional we’ll relate more to other devotional people than something like this blog. There will also be lots more subtle cues.

          No, I’m not sure what specifically is different other than his own growth. That’s more something to explore within yourself. What is reacting here that is not later? That may not have a clear answer if its not important.

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