Interconnected vs Oneness

In my post on The Proof, I commented that interconnectedness was not the same as Oneness. I thought it worth expanding on that point.

Interconnectedness is about the conscious interactive relationship between all things. It arises from the underlying commonality. Oneness on the other hand is that underlying commonality itself made conscious, that everything is one. Not conceptually or emotionally, but literally. Not in relationship, as that requires 2. It is a direct experience.

This is a little easier to grasp if we consider the layers of our experience.

On a Physical level, we experience everything as unique and discrete. Objects are separate individuals with distinct qualities and boundaries. Not only are they separate but they are becoming more so –  the expansion of the universe, entropy, erosion turns mountains into sand, one into many.

On an Emotional level, we begin to see field effects. Just as Chemistry studies electrodynamics, emotions are the field of interaction and reaction, of attraction and repulsion, and of connection and bonding.

On a mental level we get more subtle field effects. Superficially, mind is similar to emotions, but deeper down there is greater connection. Intuition and deeper feeling values are more about our interconnectedness than separation. We get ideas like one mind, social and group dynamics.

On what some may describe as a ‘soul’ level, we are as waves on the ocean, aspects of a wholeness.

And in pure consciousness itself, there is only one. All things are contained in it and arise from it. This is the field of Oneness.

Another way to explore this is through states of consciousness. Much of what are referred to as the path and higher states are an evolution in our relationship with the one consciousness.

With first awakening, we realize we are that One conscious being. There is an internal Oneness, but the external still exists as separate. From that platform, we then dive deep into the play of creation, how the world comes to arise from That I am. This takes our sense and experience of interconnectedness to a whole new level.

And finally, that inner sense of one awareness moves forwards and absorbs the mind, heart, gut and lower centers. All is joined into the One in direct experience. Only the One remains.

We can see that the experience of interconnectedness may lead to Oneness. But they are distinct aspects of the path rather than the same thing. They are very different realities. One points to reality. The other is reality.
Davidya

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15 Responses to Interconnected vs Oneness

  1. Pingback: Practical Oneness « In 2 Deep

  2. “Superficially, mind is similar to emotions, but deeper down there is greater connection.”

    mm.. in-fact the deeper you go into finding the mind, the more apparent that there is no actual mind to be found, and how can it be found, when there is nothing to be found? There are thoughts, and the collection of certain thoughts and the attachment to the body leads us to believe that we are the mind and the mind has the thought, but wouldn’t it be more like to say that we are like the sky and the thought is like the clouds. It comes and it goes, either way, we are still present. We do not diminish with the coming or going of thought, and when thought ceases we are still there, when no-mind happens we are still there.

    So there is something aware of the thought happening and something aware that the mind is a facade yet it cannot be grasped by the fraction (mind) because its always surpassed it, it is hidden in a sense.

  3. Davidya says:

    Hi LS
    Thanks for the thoughts.
    I would not say I quite agree but we’re probably talking semantics here. The way I describe mind does exist but what the mind produces can be seen as an illusion, as well as the sense that mind is other or that there are separate minds.

    I would describe mind as the interactive effect of awareness aware of itself, kind of like the inner surface of a bubble of awareness. If we go deep enough into mind (essentially a field effect) we transcend it into open space. So it can seem to not be there. Yet thoughts arise and do so in the “medium” of mind.

    Our perception of this shifts over time. I agree that attachment to the concepts and stories of the mind leads us to identify with it and think “this is me”.

    I don’t use terms like no-mind and no-self because of the way my own journey unfolded. Talked about this on a post Neti Neti. For me it is not no mind but silent mind, without boundary. Just another perspective.

    I guess I would say the contents of mind is a facade but the mind itself, as the lively beginning of becoming, remains. Again though it sounds like were just using the term slightly differently.

  4. Ah i see, it does seem to be semantics, and it does seem that we are actually talking about the same thing, just articulating it differently through our own experience.

    The only reason I saw that there is no silent mind is because the very nature of the mind is the collection of thought, that it will never be silent, which is not good or bad, and why should it have to be silent. It is only through no-mind does the chatter stop, this isn’t to say that you can’t call on the intellect as a tool when needed but its just a mechanism that’s understood at that point rather than something that the our being is attached into believing that, that is what it is. Sorry for the distortions this may bring but I’m sure at this point we both have some inkling as to the distortions of words in terms of something that the deeper you get the more unknowable to the mind it is.

    Blessings to you. 🙂

  5. Davidya says:

    Yes, it sounds like it.
    I differentiate mind as the medium, thoughts as the content. Although in another way thought is the movement of mind. I would also not say mind is never silent. It’s pretty silent in deep sleep. And in deep transcendence. But neither of those are ways we can live in the world. (laughs)

    I would also say that mind can digest what is deeper than itself, but only after it is in the experience and it will always be a facsimile. In that sense it is an illusion but only in the same way everything else is. (laughs)

    Yes, this was just about clarity. No dispute over what was said. I find it useful to touch bases on these points as it improves clarity – if some commonality of word use can be found. Not always…

    Blessings are yours.

  6. Ah i see very nicely put. I’m still a little unclear on mind being a medium, where mind could be the medium, i think what we are consciousness is the master over the thought, the one who observes the thought.

    Even in deep sleep the mind is active, otherwise dreaming would not be possible, even during the day humans are caught up in “the trance of ordinary life” or day dreaming, that there is this constant wave of dreaming which shows the mind is always persueing things and projecting repressed desires. When no-mind takes place, dreaming no longer happens, because how can it, there is no long a desire to obtain something, the body, mind, and heart are in perfect sync with each other. I agree though that there is something that resembles “mind” but it is not a permanent thing to say the least. Like you said the illusion is there, its just stepping over the obstacle is what we’re trying to do haha.

    I think the mind (intellect) cannot use the heart, but i agree it can feel it, it just cannot understand it. I refer to heart as being intuition, that thing that you know something is there but you cannot quite put your finger on it. The mind sees that as something happening but it doesn’t know how it happened because intuition takes jumps without a trace of its beginning.

    Does this clear anything up or muddle anything up?

  7. Davidya says:

    Hi LS
    hmmm – lets see if I can say it briefly. Our fundamental reality has 2 embedded qualities or principles. A principle of alertness and a principle of liveliness. When the liveliness interacts with alertness, awareness arises. Awareness then become aware of itself. This creates an aha moment in alertness, causing the flow of love. The liveliness is stirred further causing existence to arise. Love sustains existence, creating a lively field of silent alertness. An ocean of being. This is the transcendence many experience in meditation, etc.

    Another name for a field of lively alertness? Mind. The flow of love moves across mind and creation arises. Being becomes.

    Of course, this is not “individual” mind but rather one mind. Through a series of stages, a series of subsets develop and our universe emerges, a universal mind. And then within that, apparent individual minds. Illusion within illusion, within illusion. Dream within dream within dream.

    Waking from each dream is one way of describing the awakening process.

    In case anyone is reading this who thinks I am suggested a philosophical construct, that would be incorrect. This is the underlying structure of reality, as described by many over thousands of years. Of course, I am speaking from my own perspective and am using language which is inherently conceptual. And what arises in even the one mind is conceptual. The dream is a concept, an intention. But it is a much ‘higher’ conceptual framework than a personal philosophical perspective.

    On deep sleep, I would disagree. Certainly an aspect of sleep is dreams which are an active mind, but in deepest sleep, the mind shuts down. What’s notable about that is the ego does too. You may have had the experience at some time in your life of waking in the morning from deep sleep and for a moment you don’t know who or where you are. This is because the ego, a mental concept, was asleep also. Those who describe witnessing sleep will also confirm this. In witnessing, the inner awakeness continues through waking, dreaming and sleeping.

    I do agree though that “waking state” is just another form of dream, as described above. Dream state is a 4th level of dream. I think what you are describing is the end of individual mind, not the end of mind. If mind ended, there would no longer be a world or anything to experience. Except love.

    On the surface, mind and heart are almost opposites. Some compare them to left brain right brain. But as we go deeper, they come together. Mind and heart are found to arise from the same source. Intuition is a good example. We can “feel” things, and they come with knowledge. Intuition can thus feed both heart and mind. I guess in this context I mean heart as feelings and emotions, mind as intellect and judge. Yes, intuition is non-local and less bounded, outside the box of the mind. Sometimes outside the box of time and space, so it can make apparent leaps through what is interconnected.

    It’s useful to understand that any sense of separation or other is part of the construct of a me. The ego idea of me, the emotions that fuel it, and the core identity. So when we say individual or levels of existence or other dimensions, we are seeing from the perspective of separation. It’s a perfectly valid way of seeing the world. But deeper than that is the perspective of oneness, wholeness. Where there are no layers, no individuals, no separation. Just the one, expressing itself in a myriad of ways, within itself.

    From that perspective, the one dream is a dream but it is also real as it is none other than that which is all. In oneness, all paradoxes are resolved, seen as 2 sides of the one coin as it were.

    (laughs) That may be more clear or even less so…

  8. Pingback: Deepest Origins « In 2 Deep

  9. Ah, there we go, I re-discovered what I had once known about the sleep state. I do agree with you, that in deep sleep. The individual or the “me” totally disappears, it no longer is active. I seemed to of stumbled onto the individual mind, not taking into account Mind itself, that global connection. I have experienced the feeling on the not-knower, mostly notable through meditations that the only thing that was present was Awareness but the “me” had not registered itself.

    What I’ve been working with lately is Awareness, “or rather what I’ve been trying to bring back out as we are not really the doer of action” but seeing things for what they are rather than the things the me wants to believe it is.

    There is a peculiar question though, but has the inner guru found you yet, and if so, what to look for, I’ve only read so much about the inner guru that it takes many forms, but when I meditate, i don’t see imagery, only different hues of green and blue and occasionally a glimpse of my True Nature which is a feeling that is unknowable even to I. Do you have any insight on this?

  10. Davidya says:

    Yes, there are so many layers to the story. Just working on a larger article on some of Caroline Myss’s stuff. She talks about archetypes and group thought forms. Those are so embedded, it takes time to see it all. And some of it we retain so we can function in the world. Simply no longer caught by it. We recognize it is just the story playing out.

    Not a peculiar question at all. I’ve touched on some aspects of this before but not directly to the question.

    First thing to understand is that each of us have a dominant mode of experience or sense. Some are visual, some more hearing, some more feeling. I believe NLP explored this. Thus some people have “visions”, some hear things, some “feel” their way into peace. And some do none of the above. As one teacher put it, not everyone will cognize but everyone will realize.

    The trick is that experiences have nothing to do with awakening. Awakening is to who you are, not what you experience, although it certainly changes how you experience when who changes. Well, in some ways. (everything changes yet nothing changes)(laughs)(also note that I describe 3 wakings, not one)

    The unknowable aspect will become more deeply known but mind may take time to “digest’ it.

    The question of guru comes back to the evolution of consciousness. When we shift from what might be called personal development into the seeker role, we seek a teaching for our journey, an outer guru. At a certain point on the journey, we will outgrow the teacher. Sometimes, because of an inner guru, sometimes we simply evolve past the teaching. If the teaching does not remain above us, it will not flow.

    What some call the inner guru may develop in several possible ways. Some people collect “guardian angels” or “guides”. As outlined above, such things may be seen, heard, felt, or a combination thereof. However, like the outer guru, they are outside of us so are really just another form of “outer” even if we experience them internally. Thus, they too must be outgrown. They also require the same care as choosing any outer teacher as some such beings have agendas. Plus, it’s hard to check references… Personally, I learned not to put much in that arena. The emotional values can be where the most noise is.

    If we see things (laughs), such things will often appear to us in a way I call personalized, what Myss calls symbolic. For example, people tend to see angels as having certain kinds of form even though they are more like plasma than someone you meet on the street. Helps us relate to them and all that.

    Interestingly, if you’ve been on a path for any period of time, you’re getting feedback all the time. But because we’re unfamiliar with what to look for, we screen it all out. Voices in the head = BAD! (laughs) As Myss puts it “We’re always in dialogue with God.”

    Mind itself is one arena, but the “monkey mind” tends to mask the intuitive signals coming from higher mind. They can seem quieter at first but as we settle deeper, they will become louder than the surface noise. That intuition you mention is the dawning inner guru.

    Usually after awakening, perception refines to the point where we begin to perceive the actual mechanics of becoming directly. The nature of divinity unfolds. God becomes (archetypally) directly experienced. For some, this is the ultimate guru, to commune with God.

    However, if you are on a more intellectual path, you will seek the impersonal God, Brahman, Isness, without form.

    When you awaken from the dream of God into Unity, this is when the highest reality becomes known. The guru is Self. As all things are That, the guru is not inner but rather everything. All things arise from the Veda, knowledge.

    There is an old saying. When the student is ready, the teacher will come. I would add to that. When the time has come, the student will be ready and the teacher will arise.

    While any time other than now is an illusion, awareness moves it’s focus across the field of experience so it can know itself more fully. This movement of perception creates the sense of time.

    There is also the idea that when we know nothing, everything will be known. (laughs)

    To close, I could say that the inner guru cannot be sought or found. It is not somewhere else. It is only when we go deeper that the truth will unfold, as it already is.

    Make sense? (laughs)

  11. mmm.. it does to the intellectual mind, and I know that “You are not what you perceive yourself to be” as Nisargardatta Mahaj has said, and have also experienced this when I finally came to realize that I am not all those ideas, concepts, mannerisms, that the outer tends to want to focus on. Because those change substantially over time (even in minutes the thought could change) or a mannerism could change just the same. How the human beings personality can adapt to the group depending on the group, so if this is the case then which personality are you? The only conclusion I came up with was that I’m both but neither at the same time, which then led me to that I’m nothing in particular. I can observe these qualities that the personality has so how could i possibly be those qualities.

    So then there is this sense of not knowing, a sense in which I do not know who I, I have this feeling of who I am, but I can’t put my finger on it, i can’t give it a name, it illudes me (me as in the personal mind).

    But even knowing this intellectually, it has not given way to Reality, and I don’t understand. I Am what i’m searching for and that the goal I am standing on, but why does the human being mind tend to strive for something more to feel that it needs to be on a journey when it knows in the very depth of the being that it has always been there… We are the Master to begin with… We are the Buddha, we are awake yet we are asleep.

    I have trouble seeing instead of seeking… The books I’ve read have lead me here on this journey but the books have also created obstacles, which even the books themselves said would happen. I’ve never had an outer guru (unless you consider Maharaj, Osho, Jean Klein, Anthony De Mello, and Krishnamurti in book form outer gurus :P)

    They all are saying the same thing, just in a different tone.

    I even see a lot of what they say in what you write and what I write because it does not come from a different source but there is frustration in me. However all of this dissolves when I’m in meditation.. none of it exists because I’m present, and that is when I’m most likely to gain a glimpse of Myself.

    Also I’ve heard this before, “The trick is that experiences have nothing to do with awakening. Awakening is to who you are, not what you experience, although it certainly changes how you experience when who changes.” I think Maharaj had said it at some point and I’m sure some others I’ve read, and that its easy to get caught up in the experience, but that too must be gone beyond. That is how many gurus never reach the Ultimate State is that they get caught up in the pleasant experiences and chose not to go beyond it which to me is perfectly fine, like you said it’s part of the dance that we are in.

    The pleasant experience again are a form of maya, but nonetheless can be used as a tool to go beyond as long as you know what is Real.

    I’d actually like to talk with you over e-mail or something also if i could haha, I don’t often get a chance to talk with someone like you.

  12. Pingback: The Inner Guru « In 2 Deep

  13. Davidya says:

    When we are in the world, we need mind. It becomes a deeply ingrained habit. When we turn within, we try to use mind, but it fails.

    The personality is kind of like the mask we’re wearing in the role we have on stage. But who is the actor? That’s where there’s the surprise. We are not even the actor who wears the mask. We are the audience, caught up in the play, just like going to the movies.

    You seem to see it very clearly already. The error is in trying to find it. Who am I? cannot be found with the mind as it is beyond mind. WAY beyond individual mind. Knowing has not given way to Reality because understanding will only satisfy the mind. This does help as satisfying the mind lets it relax out of the way a bit. (laughs)

    The mind seeks partly because that is it’s nature and it’s habit. And partly because it is afraid. The ego knows that if it is really seen, it will be seen through and end. The illusion will pop. So it busies itself with seeking and playing roles like the seeker, even, surprisingly, the Self. Indeed, ego will play both sides. The ego and the Self, the guru and the student. It’s quite the trickster.

    Caroline Myss said “Frustrated means we have gotten the signal and downloaded instructions. We’re in a season of choice. A season of shift of roles, a power shift.”

    To just see, we must just be. Give up seeking and concepts and what is right or wrong, who i am or am not. It is about being fully present. Of surrendering all understanding. Just for a moment, a fraction of a second. One moment of compete letting go. That’s it. POP! (laughs)

    A pop that is felt throughout creation.

    But we can’t just be with mind. We have to go deeper into that presence you touch in meditation.

    What I find interesting with a given teacher is their own journey. This heavily influences the way they teach. Nisargadatta for example woke spontaneously. So he does not teach techniques or a tradition. One reality. Other teachers come from an ancient tradition with extensive teachings. Layers of reality and stages of awakening. And there is a spectrum between them, something I’ve written about several times. Many ways to one place, as many journeys as there are people.

    Some teachings don’t go past self realization. If there is an idea “this is it”, that is where they stay. The seeking has ended. Why not be satisfied with infinite bliss? (laughs) But from what I’ve seen, it is just the beginning. And when Unity dawns, again we find it is just the beginning.

    Even those who pause at self realization will complete the journey later. But it’s much better to enjoy higher values of it while you have a human body to enjoy it with! (laughs)

    Maya is another subject. The dream is not just illusion, it can become a ladder to wholeness. Covered that here:
    http://davidya.ca/2008/08/15/innate-vs-illusion/

    The pleasant experiences can also evolve into rapturous bliss and profound love. That can be a trap but it also becomes the background tone when the silence is deep enough. A “mind” is lively alertness, experienced within as bliss. While intention moves through mind, it is love. But not overshadowing when it settles in.

    I have offline correspondence with a bunch of readers. You can contact me via the link and form on the About page but I’ll drop you a note.

  14. I’ve noticed the journey differentiation very much. Like with Maharaj like you’ve said is very cut throat in the respect that it just is what it is, know what you are and it will happen. Don’t worry so much about phase because the phases are merely steps on a stairway, the end result which is you will happen, not on your time watch but it will happen when it should happen.

    Others like Osho though, have a more emotional stake in the liberation, it seems more lively in terms of “Being in the world, but not of the world” where its okay to be in the world, there is nothing wrong in it, that even to have relations. There is no need to isolate and to become a hermit in the himalayas because even this you will revert back into the old ways so there is no sense in changing the setting, the journey will still take place. He just teaches to be Awake, as much as possible, be aware of your being and who you are, but there is no need to get caught up in the world, and the more your aware, the more the world is dropped. There is no use feeling guilty of slipping back into the dream, when awareness comes back, you pull yourself back and if anything its a joyous time because you have yet again pulled yourself back into your Center.

    I wonder what led me to you, i know it was suppose to happen somewhere but I still wonder, such a blessing… 🙂

    You’re right though, the mind is seeking something, I suppose its just a matter of time before the mind will give up its pursuits knowing that what its looking for is beyond itself. As its been said, the whole can use the fraction but the fraction can not use the whole of the whole. =P Kind of like intuition uses intellect to inform others or the self of its findings but the mind cannot use intuition because whatever is known from the individual mind has already occurred, is dead, the past. (this might not be quite right in this explanation, it doesn’t feel complete.)

  15. Davidya says:

    It is true that some people get too caught by what “state” they are in, another mind game. Yet if people have no feedback, there is an uncertainty for people and no sense of what’s going on. Some people can just trust the process but most need a little reassurance.

    It is interesting to observe that consciousness determines how we experience the world and the degree of apparent awakeness. What determines consciousness? The ego? The mind? While they do filter it somewhat, those things are NOT in charge of what we experience. Consciousness is self-managing it’s own evolution. It is simply our job to allow the process to unfold. (as if we have any say)

    You have been lead nowhere. Just to a different reflection of yourSelf. There is no person here typing this other than you. Grace is a nice word for it. The gifts of being.

    No, the mind will not give up seeking. Not in the way you think at least. That is it’s nature. What happens is that who we are lets go of believing the mind. The seeking happens but we mostly come to ignore that. Soon it looses much of it’s steam as the emotional drivers also fall away, etc.

    What changes the orientation is a shift in being. In who we are.

    The mind can use intuition when it’s an open channel but not so easily when the mind is still grasping. When it lets go of trying to figure it all out. But again, it’s not mind that lets go. It is the me. Then one can step back into being and the grip is released.

    If that makes sense. (laughs)

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